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听证会上科米说了什么:推文、信任危机与“威胁”

更新时间:2017-6-10 10:16:03 来源:纽约时报中文网 作者:佚名

Comey’s Testimony: Video Highlights and Our Major Takeaways
听证会上科米说了什么:推文、信任危机与“威胁”

WASHINGTON — During a dramatic two and a half hours of testimony on Thursday, the former F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, gave new insight into his tense relationship with President Trump.

华盛顿——周四,在充满戏剧性的两个半小时的听证会上,前FBI局长詹姆斯·B·科米(James B. Comey)为他和特朗普总统的紧张关系提供了新的洞见。

Mr. Comey said he was distrustful of the president from their first meeting, in early January, and said he believed that Mr. Trump was trying to get him to end the F.B.I. investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn. Mr. Comey also described how Mr. Trump antagonized him on Twitter after firing him. Here are the biggest takeaways from the hearing:

科米表示,他在双方一月初的第一次见面中感到总统不可信任,认为特朗普试图让他终止FBI对前国家安全顾问迈克尔·T·弗林(Michael T. Flynn)的调查。科米还描述了特朗普将他解职之后如何在Twitter上攻击他。这次听证会的要点如下:

1. Trump’s Words Cost Him

1. 特朗普的话给自己带来麻烦

Mr. Trump’s Twitter account undermined him once again.

特朗普在Twitter上的发言再次给自己带来麻烦。

Days after Mr. Comey was ousted, The New York Times reported that the two men had dined one-on-one at the White House in January and that Mr. Trump had asked Mr. Comey for his loyalty. On the morning the story was published in the newspaper, the president tweeted, “James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” A flurry of questions ensued, but the White House would not confirm whether Mr. Trump had recorded their discussions.

就在科米被解职的几天之后,《纽约时报》报道称,两人一月份在白宫单独共进晚餐时,特朗普要科米表忠心。在这篇文章刊出的那天早上,特朗普发推文说,“詹姆斯·科米在向媒体爆料之前,最好希望我们之间的谈话没有‘录音’”!一系列质疑随之而来,但白宫拒绝证实特朗普是否给他们的讨论录了音。

Nevertheless, the tweet set off a series of events, some engineered by Mr. Comey, that helped prompt the appointment of a special counsel to investigate Russian election interference and possible ties to Mr. Trump’s associates, a blow to a White House that has tried to shake off the investigation.

不过,这条推文引发了一系列事件,其中一些是由科米安排的,推动了司法部任命一位特别顾问来调查俄罗斯干预美国选举,以及俄罗斯与特朗普助手之间可能的联系,这对尝试摆脱调查的白宫是一个打击。

Mr. Comey said that three days after Mr. Trump’s tweet, he woke up in the middle of the night and realized that any possible tapes could corroborate his conversations with Mr. Trump — particularly one in February in which the president asked him to end the investigation into Mr. Flynn.

科米说,特朗普发推的三天后,他半夜醒来,意识到任何可能存在的磁带都可以证实他与特朗普的交谈——特别是特朗普2月份让他不再继续调查弗林的那次。

Mr. Comey said he decided at that point that he “needed to get that out into the public square,” adding that he had asked a friend to share contents of a memo he had written about the meeting. The Times reported on that memo, and on Mr. Trump’s request that the Flynn investigation be ended, on May 16.

科米表示,他那时决定“需要把它摆在光天化日之下”,他让一位朋友将他写的和特朗普碰面有关的一份备忘录分享出去。《纽约时报》5月16日报道这份备忘录时说,特朗普要求结束对弗林的调查。

Mr. Comey said that he asked his friend to disclose the memo’s contents in the hope that a special counsel would be appointed. The next day, the Justice Department announced one: Robert S. Mueller III, the former F.B.I. director.

科米说,他让朋友披露备忘录的内容,是希望能够任命一名特别顾问。第二天司法部就宣布,任命前FBI局长罗伯特·S·穆勒三世(Robert S. Mueller III)担任特别顾问。

“Lordy, I hope there are tapes,” Mr. Trump said on Thursday.

科米周四表示:“天啊,我希望真的有录音。”

2. Trust Issues

2. 信任问题

Mr. Comey made clear on Thursday that the president never gained his trust, and that is why he documented their encounters.

科米周四明确表示,总统从未获得过他的信任,这也是他记录了他们会面经过的原因。

At their first meeting, on Jan. 6 in Trump Tower, Mr. Comey briefed Mr. Trump on a dossier compiled by a former British spy that outlines unverified but potentially compromising information that Russian intelligence officials may have on Mr. Trump. The meeting was awkward, Mr. Comey explained, though he did not detail what had troubled him. He said only that “the nature of the person” concerned him, referring to Mr. Trump.

1月6日两人第一次在特朗普大厦会面时,科米向特朗普汇报了一名前英国间谍编辑的卷宗,其中概述了俄罗斯情报官员拥有不利于特朗普的信息,这些信息未经证实,但存在潜在风险。会面很尴尬,科米解释道,不过他没有详细说明是什么让他感到困扰。他只说“这个人的品质”让他担心,他指的就是特朗普。

“I was honestly concerned that he might lie about the nature of our meeting, and so I thought it really important to document,” Mr. Comey said. “That combination of things, I’d never experienced before, but it led me to believe I’ve got to write it down, and I’ve got to write it down in a very detailed way.”

“我真的担心他可能会在我们会面的性质上撒谎,所以我认为留下记录很重要。”科米说。“我从来没有经历过这种阵仗,但它让我觉得,我必须留下记录,必须详细地写下来。”

The meeting ended, and Mr. Comey walked out of Trump Tower and into his waiting vehicle, where he immediately began writing a memo about it on a secure F.B.I. laptop. Mr. Comey went on to write memos about every major interaction he had with the president until he was fired in May.

会面结束后,科米走出特朗普大厦,坐进等候他的车中,在那里,他立即开始在一台安全的FBI笔记本电脑写下关于会面的备忘录。之后科米又写下了他与特朗普之间每一次重大会面的备忘录,直到5月他被解职。

Mr. Comey testified that he kept the memos free of classified information to ensure that many of them were not kept secret. By doing so, it made it easier to eventually make them public.

科米作证说,他没有在这些备忘录中谈到机密信息,以确保备忘录不会列入需要保密级别。这样的话,这些内容的最终公开会变得更容易一些。

“My thinking was, if I write it in such a way that I don’t include anything that would trigger a classification, that’ll make it easier for us to discuss, within the F.B.I. and the government, and to — to hold on to it in a way that makes it accessible to us,” he said.

“我的想法是,如果我不写会触发保密的内容,这样我们在FBI内部和政府内部就可以更容易讨论它,以一种可以被大家接到的方式来将其保存,”他说。

Mr. Comey said he had not written similar memos for his interactions with Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. Mr. Obama nominated him as F.B.I. director in 2013, and he served as deputy attorney general under Mr. Bush.

科米表示,他与小布什和奥巴马总统的会面并没有写进类似的备忘录里。他在2013年被奥巴马提名为FBI局长,小布什期间他担任司法部副部长。

3. Comey’s Wavering Job Security

3. 科米的职务受到威胁

Mr. Comey believed that Mr. Trump was holding his job over him, he indicated during his testimony.

科米在听证会上表示,他认为特朗普是在用FBI局长这份工作威胁他。

At their dinner in January, one week after Mr. Trump’s inauguration, the president began by talking about Mr. Comey’s job, even though he had already asked him three times about staying on as F.B.I. director, which is a 10-year appointment.

在特朗普就职典礼一周之后,两人在一月份共进晚餐时,总统一开口谈的就是科米的工作,即使在那之前,他已经三次问过科米关于继续担任FBI局长的事,该职位的任期是10年。

“My common sense told me what’s going on here is that he’s looking to get something in exchange for granting my request to stay in the job,” Mr. Comey said Thursday.

“常识告诉我,他这是试图用满足我保留职位的要求作为条件,换取点什么,”科米周四说。

He added that the comment made him uneasy and he felt that it threatened the established independence of his post.

他还提到,那些话让他很不安,他感觉这威胁到他的职务既有的独立性。

“The reason that Congress created a 10-year term is so that the director is not feeling as if they’re serving at — with political loyalty owed to any particular person,” Mr. Comey said.

“国会为该职位设立10年任期,就是为了让局长不会觉得自己是带着对任何特定人的政治忠诚在服务,”科米说。

Later on during dinner, Mr. Trump also asked Mr. Comey twice for his loyalty and Mr. Comey replied only that he would give him his “honest loyalty.”

那次晚餐进行到后来,特朗普还两次要求科米对他表忠诚,科米只表示,他会给他“诚实的忠诚”。

In their last private conversation, on April 11, Mr. Trump called and asked Mr. Comey to put out word that he was not under investigation. Mr. Trump then said that he had been loyal to Mr. Comey. “Because I have been very loyal to you, very loyal; we had that thing, you know,” the president said, according to Mr. Comey’s written testimony.

在他们于4月11日进行的最后一次私下谈话中,特朗普打电话要求科米放出消息,表明他个人没有受到调查。之后特朗普又说,他对科米一直是忠诚的。“因为我对你一直很忠诚,非常忠诚;我们有那回事,你知道的,”科米的证词显示,总统这样讲道。

Mr. Comey did not say on Thursday what the president might have meant by “that thing,” though he acknowledged that he didn’t ask him.

科米在周四没有讲总统所说的“那回事”是指什么,不过他承认自己并没有问他。

“It didn’t seem to me to be important for the conversation we were having, to understand it,” Mr. Comey said.

“在我看来,这对我们当时的谈话并不重要,没必要弄明白,”科米说。

He was fired almost a month after that discussion.

在这次谈话过去近一个月后,他被解职。

4. ‘Lies, Plain and Simple’

4. “那是撒谎,再简单明白不过”

Mr. Comey testified that the White House had provided inaccurate and misleading information about the state of the F.B.I. Mr. Trump has said, without offering evidence, that Mr. Comey was a bad F.B.I. director and that the bureau was not being run effectively. Mr. Comey has taken those assertions personally.

科米还在作证时提到,对于联邦调查局的状况,白宫提供了不准确和误导性的信息。特朗普曾表示,科米是一名糟糕的联邦调查局局长,该机构没有得到有效的管理,但又没有提供任何证据。科米认为这是在针对他个人。

“The administration then chose to defame me and, more importantly, the F.B.I., by saying that the organization was in disarray, that it was poorly led, that the work force had lost confidence in its leader,” Mr. Comey said.

“然后政府选择诽谤我,更重要的是,还诋毁联邦调查局,称这家机构处在混乱之中,领导不力,工作人员对其领导者失去了信心,”科米说。

“Those were lies, plain and simple, and I am so sorry that the F.B.I. work force had to hear them and I’m so sorry that the American people were told them.”

“那是撒谎,再简单明白不过。我很抱歉让联邦调查局的工作人员听到这样的话,让美国民众听到这些。”

Mr. Comey went on to say that “the F.B.I. will be fine without me.”

科米接着表示,“没有我,联邦调查局也会很好。”

Asked later about the comments, a White House spokeswoman, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said, “I can definitively say the president is not a liar, and frankly I’m insulted by that question.”

在后来被问及这些言论时,白宫发言人萨拉·赫卡比·桑德斯(Sarah Huckabee Sanders)表示,“我可以肯定地讲,总统没有撒谎。坦白讲,被问到这样的问题,对我来说是一种侮辱。”

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