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斯诺登的好莱坞漫长奇异之旅(二):陷入泥潭

更新时间:2016-9-2 10:07:40 来源:纽约时报中文网 作者:佚名

Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
斯诺登的好莱坞漫长奇异之旅(二):陷入泥潭

I first spoke to Stone in June 2015, after reading that he was in the midst of shooting a film based on Kucherena’s novel. He said he would be traveling to Moscow again that week to shoot Snowden and agreed to let me tag along. A day later, a peeved Borman called me. “You’ve been disinvited,” he said coolly.

2015年6月,我得知斯通正在根据库切列纳的小说拍摄电影之后,初次与他联系。他说那周要再次前往莫斯科拍摄斯诺登,同意我随同前往。一天后,博尔曼给我打来电话。他很恼火。“你的邀请被取消了,”他冷冷地说。

During those 24 hours, this magazine had contacted Ben Wizner, Snowden’s lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Union, to arrange an interview with his client. Kucherena may be Snowden’s Russian representative, but in the United States, Wizner runs the show. Wizner was furious. Not just because Stone had invited a reporter to Moscow, but because of how it all looked: that Snowden was involved in a Hollywood movie and that the whole production was seemingly brokered by a lawyer with ties to the Kremlin. Borman would later tell me that we had waded into the sticky territory of Snowden’s multiple emissaries. “There are two ways to access him: One is Kucherena and one is Wizner, and it’s completely political,” Borman said. “It’s a political situation that goes way above your head.”

在那24小时里,本杂志联系了斯诺登在美国公民自由联盟(American Civil Liberties Union)的律师本·维茨纳(Ben Wizner),以便安排采访他的客户。库切列纳是斯诺登在俄罗斯的代理人,但在美国,维茨纳掌管相关事务。维茨纳特别愤怒。不只是因为斯通邀请一位记者去莫斯科,而且因为这一切给人的感觉:斯诺登参与一部好莱坞电影,而整部电影的制作似乎是由一名与俄罗斯政府有关的律师牵线搭桥。博尔曼后来对我说,我们已经陷入斯诺登多名密使的泥潭。“通过两个渠道可以接触他:一个是库切列纳,另一个是维茨纳,纯粹是政治,”博尔曼说,“一个远远超出你理解能力的政治情况。”

When Wizner and I finally got on the phone, he was in damage-­control mode. He told me that Snowden wasn’t profiting from Stone’s film in any way. “One hard-and-fast rule Ed always had was, I’m not selling my life rights,” Wizner said. Snowden’s participation in a Hollywood movie would only fuel the claims of his critics — that he was a narcissist eager to cash in. That said, Stone’s film would be seen by millions of people, which meant it could sway public opinion. “We were choosing between two bad options,” Wizner said. “He could have stubbornly stayed completely at arm’s length and had no input whatsoever. Or he could have some input and compromised the arm’s-length relationship. And I didn’t know how to advise him on that.”

我最终与维茨纳通上话时,他处于善后处理的状态。他对我说,斯诺登不会以任何方式从斯通的电影中获利。“埃德(爱德华的昵称)的铁律是,我不出卖我的故事,”维茨纳说。斯诺登参与好莱坞电影只会助长他的批评者的观点——他们说他是渴望捞钱的自恋狂。虽说如此,但斯通的电影将被千百万人观看,那意味着它可能影响公众的观点。“我们面临一个两难选择,”维茨纳说,“他可以坚定地保持距离,不管怎样都不参与。他也可以有所参与,但牺牲一点距离。在这个问题上,我不知道该怎么给他提供建议。”

According to Wizner, Snowden met with Stone only to make sure that the film told an accurate story. “It’s been us walking this tightrope between clearly not having any formal connection to the project — not deriving any benefit from it — and also not wanting to just be completely helpless and, you know, see what Oliver Stone comes up with,” Wizner said. Despite some initial discomfort, he was tentatively optimistic. “Maybe it’ll be good,” Wizner added. “You know, Oliver Stone wrote ‘Scarface.’ ”

据维茨纳说,斯诺登与斯通见面只是为了确保这部电影讲述了一个准确的故事。“我们在走钢丝,一边是与这个项目没有任何正式联系——也不能从中获得任何利益——另一边是不想完全无能为力,只是看着奥利弗·斯通能拍出一部什么片子来,”维茨纳说。尽管最初他感到不安,但他还是持谨慎乐观的态度。“也许是好事,”维茨纳补充说,“你知道,奥利弗·斯通写过《疤面煞星》(Scarface)。”

Still, Stone was heading to Moscow to film Snowden for an appearance in the movie, which could be seen as an endorsement. Fact-­checking is one thing, I said; a cameo is another. “It is, and I’m not entirely comfortable with it,” Wizner said.

不过,斯通还是前往莫斯科拍摄斯诺登,他的形象会在片中出现,这可以被视为一种支持。我说,事实核查是一回事;在片中客串是另一回事。“是的,对此我并不是没有顾虑。”

Wizner had negotiated veto control over any footage featuring Snowden in the film. After we spoke, the lawyer says he asked Borman to put that in writing. He also reiterated that if Stone took a reporter along, Snowden would not participate. Stone and I eventually reached a compromise: I wouldn’t observe the shoot, but I could still come and meet Kucherena.

维茨纳曾通过谈判获得对斯诺登在片中亮相片段的否决权。我们谈话之后,这位律师说,他让博尔曼把那一点落到纸面上。他还重申,如果斯通带记者去的话,斯诺登不会参与。我和斯通最终达成妥协:我不会观看拍摄过程,不过我还是能来会见库切列纳。

A few days later, I met Stone in Moscow. The director, who is 69, has a forward-­leaning gait and unruly eyebrows, so that he looks a bit like a bull that is always about to charge. He emerged from the hotel’s elevator with a pained look on his face. It was drizzling, and Stone’s hair, which is the color of dark shoe polish, was pointing laterally. “I have some bad news,” he said. “I cannot deliver Anatoly.” He had just seen Snowden, who had been in touch with Wizner and was very upset, Stone said. “Ed said he doesn’t want Anatoly talking to you, and he said that very clearly,” Stone added.

几天后,我在莫斯科见到斯通。这位69岁的导演有着前倾的步态和桀骜不驯的眉毛,看起来有点像一头永远准备向前冲的公牛。他从酒店电梯里出来,脸上带着痛苦的表情。当时下着毛毛雨,斯通深鞋油色的头发向两侧翘起。“我有些坏消息,”他说,“我无法向你引见阿纳托利。”他刚见过斯诺登。斯通说,斯诺登跟维茨纳联系过了,很不高兴。“埃德说,他不想让阿纳托利跟你交谈,他说得很清楚,”斯通补充说。

I would spend the next few days camped out at the hotel. When Stone wasn’t shooting, we would meet in the lobby bar as he continued to tell me about the making of his film.

接下来的几天,我守在酒店里。斯通不拍摄时,我们在大堂酒吧见面,他继续对我讲述电影拍摄的情况。

Soon after optioning Kucherena’s novel, Stone had returned to Moscow with his co-­writer, Kieran Fitzgerald, a recent University of Texas M.F.A. graduate. Anticipating a homesick Snowden, Fitzgerald hauled over a duffel bag packed with the stuff of Americana dreams: Kraft macaroni and cheese, ­Jell-O cups, Oreos, Pepperidge Farm cookies, Twizzlers, peanut butter, Spam, an Orioles baseball cap and a pair of Converse sneakers. “It was like delivering a care package to a kid at summer camp,” Fitzgerald told me. He also slipped in a copy of “The Odyssey” translated by his grandfather, Robert Fitzgerald. “I thought it was appropriate, since Ed was on his own kind of odyssey trying to get home.”

买下库切列纳的小说改编权后不久,斯通带着刚从德克萨斯大学(University of Texas)获得艺术硕士学位的联合编剧基兰·菲茨杰拉德(Kieran Fitzgerald)返回莫斯科。菲茨杰拉德猜测斯诺登会想家,所以带来一个大行李袋,装满了美国人最喜欢的东西:卡夫(Kraft)奶酪通心粉,Jell-O果冻杯、奥利奥(Oreo)、非凡农庄(Pepperidge Farm)饼干、多滋乐(Twizzlers)、花生酱、斯帕姆(Spam)午餐肉、一顶金莺队(Orioles)棒球帽和一双匡威(Converse)运动鞋。“就像是给一个参加夏令营的孩子送补给包,”菲茨杰拉德对我说。他还塞进了一本他祖父罗伯特·菲茨杰拉德(Robert Fitzgerald)翻译的《奥德赛》(The Odyssey)。“我觉得它很合适,因为埃德也正在努力归乡的旅途中。”

Snowden and Stone had gotten off to a slow start. Snowden was squeamish about a movie being made about his life. Stone, in turn, said the film would be made with or without him. Fitzgerald says he played referee. “Oliver can be a bit of battering ram,” Fitzgerald said. “He’s accustomed to hard men who need to be cracked, but that’s not Edward Snowden. He’s not an alpha-­male type. He’s a very sensitive mind. So I was there to say: ‘Everything is going to be O.K. He’s a good guy. It’s going to be a good movie.’ ” Eventually, Snowden began to open up, answering questions about his childhood; his girlfriend, Lindsay Mills; and what he could about his work for the N.S.A.

斯诺登和斯通一开始进展得很慢。斯诺登对于一部关于自己人生的电影特别谨慎。斯通则说,不管有没有他参与,这部电影都要拍出来。菲茨杰拉德说,他从中调解。“奥利弗有点像攻城槌,”菲茨杰拉德说,“他见惯了那些强势人物,那些必须降伏的人物,但爱德华·斯诺登不是那样的人。他不强势。他非常敏感。所以我会对他说:‘一切都会好的。他是个好人。这会是一部好电影。’”最终,斯诺登开始放开了一些,回答有关他的童年、他的女友林赛·米尔斯(Lindsay Mills)以及有关在国家安全局的工作中可以讲的部分。

While Fitzgerald returned to Austin to work on the script, Stone set out to plant his flag in the Snowden story. In Hollywood, book options are the equivalent of calling dibs, and Stone had competition. In May 2014, Sony Pictures optioned Greenwald’s “No Place to Hide.” By June, Stone had announced that he acquired Kucherena’s book and Harding’s “The Snowden Files.” The tactic worked. Sony got nervous. “Now what?” Amy Pascal, then Sony’s co-­chairwoman, wrote to another executive. (The email would be leaked during the Sony hack.) Pascal’s colleague reminded her of the case of the dual Steve Jobs biopics — “Jobs,” with Ashton Kutcher, might have come out first, but it was “Steve Jobs,” starring Michael Fassbender, that was the better film. Pascal wasn’t convinced. “Oliver Stone is not Ashton Kutcher,” she responded. She wrote to George Clooney to pique his interest in adapting Greenwald’s book, but Clooney passed. “Stone will do a hatchet job on the movie, but it will still be the film of Snowden,” he replied.

菲茨杰拉德返回奥斯汀继续写剧本。斯通则开始抢占斯诺登的故事。在好莱坞,获得图书改编权相当于宣布抢先占有,斯通面临着竞争。2014年5月,索尼影业(Sony Pictures)买下了格林沃尔德《无处藏身》的电影改编权。当年6月,斯通宣布,他买下了库切列纳的书和哈丁的《斯诺登的文件》。这个策略奏效了。索尼开始不安。“现在怎么办?”索尼当时的联合总裁埃米·帕斯卡尔(Amy Pascal)给另一位高管写邮件问道(这封邮件后来在索尼遭黑客攻击时泄露)。帕斯卡尔的同事提醒她关于史蒂夫·乔布斯(Steve Jobs)的两部传记的事——阿什顿·库彻(Ashton Kutcher)主演的《乔布斯》(Jobs)是更早上映,但迈克尔·法斯宾德(Michael Fassbender)主演的《史蒂夫·乔布斯》更胜一筹。帕斯卡尔没有被说服。“奥利弗·斯通不是阿什顿·库彻,”她回复道。她给乔治·克鲁尼(George Clooney)写信,激发他改编格林沃尔德的书的兴趣,不过克鲁尼谢绝了。“斯通的片子会拍得很糟,不过它仍将是关于斯诺登的电影,”他在回复中说。

For Stone, the impending Sony project was a call to arms. Fitzgerald cranked out a first draft of the script, and that fall Stone went out to studios with a budget of $50 million and a release date in December 2015. Each one turned it down, and Stone became convinced that the studios wanted to quash the project because of its controversial subject matter. “This is why corporations owning movie studios is not a good idea,” he said.

对于斯通来说,计划中的索尼项目就像是战斗的号角。菲茨杰拉德赶出了剧本的第一稿,那年秋天,斯通带着5000万美元的预算和2015年12月这个上映时间来到制片公司。每家公司都拒绝了他。斯通开始确定,因为该片的争议性主题,制片公司想撤掉这个项目。“这就是为什么由大公司来把持制片机构不是什么好主意,”他说。

While Borman hustled to find independent financing, Stone dove into casting. For the lead, he chose Joseph Gordon-­Levitt, the son of liberals from Sherman Oaks, Calif., and a former child actor who has retained a pleasingly boyish look. “There’s an interesting blandness to him in the same way that Jimmy Stewart might’ve been considered bland,” Stone said. “There’s a neutrality there, which allows him to grow on you.” Shailene Woodley was cast to play Lindsay Mills, Zachary Quinto as Greenwald and Melissa Leo as Poitras.

博尔曼忙着寻找独立投资,斯通则开始了选角工作。他选了约瑟夫·高登-莱维特(Joseph Gordon-Levitt)来担任主角,他父母是加利福尼亚州舍曼奥克斯市的自由主义者,小时候当过童星,现在还有一付讨人喜欢的男孩子气相貌。“他有一种有趣的沉静气质,是吉米·斯图尔特(Jimmy Stewart)的那种沉静,”斯通说。“他身上有种中立性的色彩,让你越来越喜欢他。”谢琳·伍德蕾(Shailene Woodley)出演林赛·米尔斯(Lindsay Mills),扎克瑞·昆图(Zachary Quinto)饰演格林沃尔德,梅丽莎·里奥(Melissa Leo)饰演普瓦特拉斯。

By early 2015, Borman and Stone had racked up several hundred thousand dollars in debt, but the money was still short. The shoot was ultimately delayed three weeks as the producer cobbled together European partners. In the United States, “Snowden” was picked up by Open Road Films, a small production company that had just put out “Jobs” — the Kutcher version.

2015年初,博尔曼和斯通已经欠下几十万美元的债务,但是资金仍然短缺。最后,制作人拉到一些欧洲合作伙伴,拍摄也推迟了三个星期。在美国,“开放之路”电影公司(Open Road Films)接受了《斯诺登》,这家小型制片公司曾经推出过库彻那个版本的《乔布斯》。

“It was painful that we ended up with this independent distributor,” Stone said.

“我们最后要和这家独立发行商合作,这很让人痛苦,”斯通说。

Borman offered that Open Road was not so independent anymore.

博尔曼说,开放之路其实已经不那么独立。

“I’d never heard of it,” Stone said, adding: “I’ve been there before, but not on this level and not at this age. So for me, it was very difficult personally.”

“我从来没听说过,”斯通说,又补充道。“这样的处境我曾经历过,不过不是在这种程度上,也不是现在这样的年纪。所以对于我个人来说,还是挺艰难的。”

The cover of “Time of the Octopus” features a blown-up image of Snowden’s face and a globe peeled like an orange to reveal the logo of the C.I.A. In his author photo, Kucherena indeed looks bearish, with a round face, matted white hair and a cellphone pressed to his right ear — as if he were midnegotiation. “The whole truth about the American agent on the run,” the cover boasts. Also: “Oliver Stone is currently shooting a film based on this book.”

《章鱼时间》(Time of the Octopus)的封面上是斯诺登被放大的脸,以及地球像橘子一样被剥去皮,露出中央情报局的标识。在作者照片中,库切列纳一张圆脸,白发浓密蓬乱,手机放在右耳边,好像正在谈判,看上去的确有点像一头熊。“关于这位逃亡中的美国特工的全部真相,”封面上这样宣告,“奥利佛·斯通正在拍摄根据此书改编的电影。”

I had gotten my copy from Stone, who handed it to me with a disclaimer. “Now, it’s easy to take a shot at this,” he said. “You know, it wasn’t the basis of the movie. But it’s fun. I enjoyed reading it.”

我从斯通那里拿到了这本书,他把这书给我,还做了个免责声明。“要试一下这个很容易,”他说,“你知道,电影根本不是根据这本书改编的。不过它很有意思。我挺爱看的。”

“Time of the Octopus” takes place in a single night. The protagonist, Joshua Cold, is sequestered in a bunker at Sheremetyevo Airport, where his Russian lawyer keeps him company. The chapters alternate between their time-­stamped conversations and those labeled as digital files (“File 004.wav”), suggesting that they are the lawyer’s transcribed recordings. The basic facts of Cold’s case sound familiar, as do the character names: There are journalists named Boitras and Greywold and an organization called Mikileaks run by an Augusto Cassangie. For the most part, Cold and the lawyer sit and talk about life, quoting Laozi to each other. But there is also a distinctly post-­Soviet tone to the novel, which reads both like a love letter to American culture — Steven Spielberg, B.B. King, “The Terminator,” Penthouse magazine, Popeye, “The ­X-Files,” Paul Newman, Bon Jovi, “Spider-­Man,” “Braveheart,” Quentin Tarantino and Tupac Shakur are all mentioned — and a gleeful taunt to its government. “Not only did [Cold] snap the beak of the American eagle,” Kucherena writes, “but he also gave him a good kick and a very humiliating one, as if it was not a menacing predator but a rural hen.”

《章鱼时间》的故事发生在一个晚上。主人公乔舒亚·科尔德(Joshua Cold)在他的俄罗斯律师陪伴下,躲在谢列梅捷沃机场的藏匿处。各章节交替使用两种时间,有的是打了时间戳记的对话,有的是标注为电子档案的对话(比如“File 004.wav”),说明是根据律师录音整理的文字记录。科尔德故事的基本事实听上去很熟悉,人物的名字也很熟悉:书中有两个记者,名叫波依特拉斯(Boitras)和格雷沃尔德(Greywold),有个组织名叫“米基解密”(Mikileaks),主办者名叫奥古斯托·卡桑奇(Augusto Cassangie)。书的大部分内容是科尔德和那个律师坐在那儿谈人生,互相引用老子。但是小说中也有一种明显的后苏联时代的调子,读来仿佛是一封写给美国文化的情书——里面提到了史蒂芬·斯皮尔伯格(Steven Spielberg)、B·B·金(B. B. King)、《终结者》(The Terminator)、《顶层》(Penthouse)杂志、大力水手(Popeye)、《X档案》(The X-Files)、保罗·纽曼(Paul Newman)、“邦·乔维”(Bon Jovi)、《蜘蛛侠》(Spider-Man)、《勇敢的心》(Braveheart)、昆汀·塔伦蒂诺(Quentin Tarantino)和图帕克·沙克尔(Tupac Shakur)——但它也像是对美国政府欢快的奚落。“[科尔德]不仅折断了美国鹰的嘴,”库切连纳写道,“而且给了他狠狠的一脚,极尽羞辱的一脚,仿佛它不是一只危险的猛禽,而是一只农村的母鸡。”

In the bunker, Cold enjoys pizza and whiskey, but he is worried about American agents coming to retrieve him. “Believe me, Russia is not the worst option for you,” the lawyer tells Cold. “And you needn’t regard us with such mistrust.”

在藏匿处,科尔德吃着披萨喝着威士忌,但他担心美国特工来把他抓回去。“相信我,俄罗斯并不是你最糟的选择,”律师告诉科尔德。“你用不着这样怀疑我们。”

Once Cold is granted asylum, the propaganda is dialed up. “I shall work in Russia and get an apartment!” Cold announces. “I thought I would spend the rest of my life in this underground prison.”

科尔德被允许避难之后,宣传攻势立即升级。“我会在俄罗斯工作,找一个住所!”科尔德宣布。“我本来觉得我的余生都会在这座地牢里度过了。”

“As far as I know Mr. Putin, he is not one to change his mind easily,” the lawyer assures him. “All will be O.K.” The novel concludes with Cold vowing to learn to drink like the Russians, but the lawyer suggests he try Kvass instead, a fermented beverage made from rye bread. (“It is the Russian Coca-­Cola,” the lawyer says.) Then they leave the bunker.

“就我对普京的了解,他不是一个容易改变想法的人,”律师对他保证说。“一切都没问题。”在小说的结尾,科尔德宣誓学会像俄罗斯人一样喝酒,但是律师建议他先尝试卡瓦斯,这是一种用黑麦面包做成的发酵酒(“这是俄罗斯人的可口可乐,”律师说。)然后他们就离开了藏匿处。

“Weird, huh?” Fitzgerald said when I asked about the novel. In fact, few people associated with either Snowden or “Snowden” wanted to discuss it. “I don’t want to say anything on the record about that book,” Gordon-­Levitt told me.

“很奇怪,是吧?”当我问起这本小说的时候,菲茨杰拉德说。事实上,和斯诺登以及《斯诺登》电影有关的人几乎都不愿意谈起它。“关于这本书,我不想公开讲什么,”高登-莱维特说。

According to WikiLeaks, Stone paid a million dollars for “Time of the Octopus,” which seemed like a hefty amount to pay for material that Stone admitted he had no plans of using. (That’s the same figure Sony reportedly paid for the rights to “Eat, Pray, Love.”) “We bought it because we did get good access to Ed,” Stone explained. “He had to be brought along.”

根据维基解密(WikiLeaks),斯通付了100万美元,得到《章鱼时间》的改编权,但是斯通承认,他不打算用这本书,所以这似乎是一笔过于高昂的费用(据报道,索尼付给《美食,祈祷,恋爱》[Eat, Pray, Love]的改编权费用也是这么多)。“我们买下它,是因为这样我们就可以接触到埃德,”斯通解释说。“必须见到他。”

During Stone’s visits, Kucherena hosted the director at his favorite restaurants and at his dacha outside Moscow. “They had a kind of bromance,” Fitzgerald told me. Photos from the trips look like vacation postcards, with Stone and Fitzgerald grinning in Red Army caps (a gift from Kucherena) and Fitzgerald and Gordon-­Levitt posing for a selfie in front of St. Basil’s Cathedral. While out in public, the group referred to Snowden as “Sasha,” a nickname Kucherena had given him.

斯通在俄罗斯期间,库切列纳在他最喜欢的餐厅和他在莫斯科外的别墅款待这位导演。“他们产生了一种兄弟情,”菲茨杰拉德对我说。那几次行程的照片好像度假明信片,斯通和菲茨杰拉德戴着红军的帽子(是库切列纳的礼物)露齿而笑,菲茨杰拉德与高登-莱维特还在圣巴塞尔大教堂前摆姿势自拍。在公共场合,他们把斯诺登称为“萨沙”,这个外号是库切列纳给他起的。

Kucherena and I would eventually speak by phone. He said he wrote the novel because he had received calls from many “representatives of Hollywood,” writers and filmmakers. “At some point, I just thought to myself, Why don’t I try to write the book?” he said. I asked which writers and directors had called him. “Very many people called me,” he replied. “But I honestly don’t remember their names now.”

库切列纳和我最后终于通上了电话。他说,他写这本小说是因为接到不少“好莱坞代表”的电话,包括编剧和导演。“在某个时候,我自问,为什么不写一本书呢?”他说。我问都是哪些编剧和导演给他打过电话。“有很多人给我打过电话,”他回答。“但我现在确实想不起他们的名字了。”

The lawyer was deeply troubled by the news media’s insinuations that he is connected to the Kremlin. He pointed to several clients he has defended against the F.S.B., including Platon Obukhov, a writer accused of spying for Britain. “I never had any kind of agreement with the Kremlin,” he said. “They tried to say I’m tied to the F.S.B., but that’s complete nonsense, excuse me.”

新闻媒体上暗示这位律师和克里姆林宫有联系,这令他非常烦恼。他说了几个自己为之辩护,对抗俄罗斯联邦安全局的客户,其中包括被指控为英国做间谍的作家普拉顿·奥布霍夫(Platon Obukhov)。“我从来没有和克里姆林宫达成过任何协议,”他说。“他们说我和联邦安全局有关,但是不好意思,这完全是胡说八道。”

Kucherena said he was inspired by his favorite authors, who include Tom Clancy, Aldous Huxley and George Orwell. “The Octopus in my novel is, you can say, a direct offspring of Big Brother,” he said. Like most writers of fiction, he was reluctant to discuss which parts of his book were based in reality. “A person can only be open with someone he trusts,” Kucherena said. “And here, because he had no one else, it turned out that I took on the role of mother and father. Accordingly, we had confidential conversations of various sorts.”

库切列纳说,他喜爱的那些作家给了他灵感,其中包括汤姆·克兰西(Tom Clancy)、阿尔都斯·赫胥黎(Aldous Huxley)和乔治·奥威尔(George Orwell)。“你可以说,我小说中的章鱼就是‘老大哥’的直系后裔,”他说。和大多数小说作家一样,他不太情愿讨论自己小说中有哪些章节是基于现实的。“一个人只能对自己信任的人敞开心扉,”库切列纳说。“在这里,他身边没有任何人,最后我就承担了父亲和母亲的角色。于是,我们就有了各种私密的交谈。”

He did not see a conflict of interest in his writing the novel. “I wrote an artistic book,” Kucherena said. Because he represents Snowden pro bono, he never expected to capitalize on the relationship. “I don’t take any money from him,” Kucherena said. “He doesn’t have any. So I wrote a book, yes, fine. So I got a little, as we say in Russian.”

他不觉得自己创作这本小说会带来什么利益冲突。“我的书是艺术创作,”库切列纳说。他是无偿志愿代表斯诺登的利益,所以他从没想过利用这种关系牟利。“我没向他收取任何费用,”库切列纳说。“他也没有钱。我写了这本书,是的。好吧,用我们俄罗斯人的话说,我得到了一点点。”

Despite being the one to put the “Snowden” project into motion, Kucherena shied away from assuming any credit. “I’m very far from all that,” he said. “I’m just an advocate. Look at where I am and where Hollywood is!”

尽管他是推动《斯诺登》电影计划的人,但库切列纳却不愿居其功。“我远远算不上什么,”他说。“我只是个律师。看看我在哪儿,好莱坞又在哪儿!”

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